The British National health has gone down in standards over many years, it started when the Labour party started to cut left, right and centre.
They cut the amount of staff, the amount of wards and also the amount of money going to the hospitals, etc.
In cutting the amount of wards, they had the bright idea of making some wards mixed, which i would find very awkward. The present Government has stopped mixed wards.
Then they brought in over paid managers to take charge of the hospitals, who in turn brought in junior managers, all these people had to be paid out of the hospital budget which meant more cuts. But if a hospital keep getting worse, someone was brought in to turn the hospital around and back on its feet, but the managers keep their jobs.
Waiting times in A & E are sky-high, 7 to 9 hours you have to wait to get seen by a doctor. When you do see one you could wait another 5 to 8 hours before getting a bed if your being admitted to hospital.
A man in Belfast was seen by a doctor and told he would have to lie on a hospital trolley until they could get a bed for him, when the porters turned up some 5 hours later to take him to a ward, the man was dead.
A lady with a broken hip had to wait on a wheel chair for 6 hours in a corridor corner, the staff forgot all about her.
Another old lady needed to use a commode, so the staff took her to a store-room for privacy, her daughter went 45 minutes later to look for her and again the nurses had forgotten about her.
Its well-known, never go to A & E at the weekends, if you do, get someone to bring down tea and sandwiches as you will be there all day.
But the cuts still go on, its endless. There will never be and end to it as long as the people in charge are there. The hospitals need clinical people to be in charge at least they know what they want and need, not some bright spark from and office.
dribblingpensioner 
Horrible, imagine going through that after an injury.
Its been going on for years Ina.
I totally agree. The place is riddled with unnecessary management many of whom have their own agenda – to protect their jobs!
I could say so much but this is your blog space not mine!
Caroline have a rant, i don’t mind. But unnecessary management jobs have cost a lot of money.
It’s just the ‘protection’ jobs. It seems to me they’ve lost sight of what the NHS is about – it’s about treating people. Not having masses of surveys and people walking round with clipboards seeing if we’re all ‘enjoying’ the experience etc
A friend of mine actually opted for early retirement as an anaesthetist at one of London’s leading hospital after the new young manager removed the water cooler from outside the operating theatre and moved it to outside her office and then organised the operating teams into new rotas as she wanted to prove her way was more efficient. It wasn’t – the operating teams had been self managing rotas and holidays for years. She took over and everything fell apart!!
It’s called progress!!! Or not!!
Bring back matron. Put her in charge or the nurses and services on her wards and let the doers do!!
I work as a facilities manager. I see my job as getting everything so efficient (by empowering and listening to those who work for me) that I can make my job redundant! Well I got rid of several ‘managers’ and the doers are much happier. And I’m intending to make myself redundant in the next few months!!!
Rant over!!
A good rant 🙂 new managers coming into something that has working great for years usually make a complete mess of things, they don’t want it to run as it was, they must put their stamp on it.
This is so tragic. I’m afraid if Obama Health Care passes then this is what the US will end up with, as well. Right now you can schedule surgeries immediately and the wait time in the emergency rooms is not terrible. There needs to be more clinicians/Dr.s and Nurses etc. not “managers” running around making things more chaotic and less effective.
I agree with you, Harry. No one should lose their life because of medical neglect.
I don’t know much about the USA health service, but you don’t need more managers.
I think this is the direction Obama would like to go in. It really scares me.
‘The hospitals need clinical people to be in charge at least they know what they want and need, not some bright spark from and office.’
Spot on!
Anna :o]
Thanks Anna , less bright sparks, more work done right.
It is a sad state and probably will get worse with planned funding cutbacks. Too bad people have to suffer like this, due to bureaucracy and greed.
It will get worse Marcia.
Medical care here is slowly sinking, with the costs of insurance and the growing number of people who can’t afford a simple doctor’s visit, much less a major medical event. I am grateful every day for my medical insurance–and would cut back on everything else in order to keep it paid monthly.
I’m not sure what we’re going to do, but, it has to be soon.
Although the NHS has deep problems and many meddling, clueless politician’s have created deeper ones, in terms of balance I have to say that it’s not all that bad all the time. About two years ago I had to go to A+E on the dreaded Friday night, I was amazed that I was being looked at within fifteen minutes of walking through the door. I was gobsmacked as I was expecting to be there for the whole night. My injury wasn’t in any way life threatening either. And to top it all off the staff were really helpful and friendly. You raise some very valid points and of course improvements do need to be made but in defence of the NHS and the majority of its staff I have to say that the last time I was in need I was very impressed with the service.
Lance, the staff do their best working under to many managers.
As an additional it always amazes me that successive governments come into power, announce some wide sweeping changes to the NHS, and all the doctors and nurses seem to immediately denounce the changes as wrong and damaging. Where are the politician’s getting the ideas for these changes from if it isn’t be by speaking to the doctor’s and nurses? Surely they’re the ones who should be involved with the discussions of how the NHS could be improved? And in fact (bear with me one second while I hop up onto my soapbox) I wonder why we even have a Health Minister. Why is something as important as health care run by a politician? Politician’s know about politics not health care. So why isn’t health care run by a health care professional? Someone who is so passionate about the subject that they’ve dedicated their whole career to it? As opposed to someone who perhaps actually just wanted the chancellor’s job but is prepared to do health care until the position comes up. Why isn’t the top job in health care the running of the whole the health care system? And given to someone who’s worked their way up from the wards to the departments to the hospitals to the regions and finally to the very top national level. Because surely that’s the kind of person who is most likely to know how to improve it? The same point applies to many other areas as well, like schools for example. Why do we have a Minister for Education? Shouldn’t the top job in education be held by a top teacher? To summarise, why do we have politician’s running everything and not professionals?
(I’ll just get down off the ol’ soapbox now and leave you alone…)
Don’t put the soap box to far away, more posts to come yet 🙂
Politician’s know about politics, i wonder some times, they rabbit on and some times don’t no what they are taking about.
Bring back matron to run the wards.
Whoa! whoa! whoa! at both you and Lance.
The last people to be put in charge of the health service are clinicians. Simple. And I don’t take kindly to being called an overpaid manager when I bust a gut working until after midnight (with no extra pay before anyone asks). What is the added value of getting clinical staff to spend their time on managerial issues – for which I would like to point out, they are not trained – when you can get a manager for less money?
And no, managers do not keep their jobs when there are cuts. They are the first to go. Whatever paper you read is the wrong one. Clinicians only ever got for misconduct.
Political parties are irrelevant. The health service has always been the same. It was the same when I was left on a trolley 48 years ago and got an infection in my tonsils. Clinical staff left me. No responsibility.
Why are you blaming managers for clinical staff not looking after people? Same old story. Bash the overpaid managers (I wish) in favour of the virtuous clinical staff. Dream on.
Politicians changing the system is a different issue. In fact the NHS doesn’t really need any change, it would function perfectly well without stupid administrative change. And it would be a disaster with medics in charge. Believe me. Or not as your choice may be.
Wait, I’ll find you a relevant post.
I don’t think it’s the matter of managers being overpaid. When it was changed by Labour to managers they in turn over staffed the office side to the cost of the medical side numbers.
A manager needs to be in place but must do his/her job to better the hospital, which is not happening now.
1) I think your original post commented about over paid managers.
2) That’s a totally political statement. Who cares about Labour or whoever? Do you really really have any figures to substantiate that? And can you evaluate it with costs?
3) How do you know what is happening within the health service? Oh, I remember, doctors know best so they can sort it?
do you really think the NHS is any different to what it was xx years ago? because I don’t. Apart from the little bits where I liked to think I helped.
Wahey! We have someone with an informed perspective. Very interesting points you make. I completely see your point about the clinician’s running things so I retract that suggestion. So to tweak what I was saying, how about a system in which the managers can work their way up to the top and have the best hospital managers running the show and not politician’s? Do you think that could work? (sorry dribblingpensioner I know manager’s are your bugbear here so I apologise for suggesting they get more power). My issue is simply with politician’s having the power to make changes without the knowledge of what changes need to be made. That combined with a lust for stamping their authority on things seems to make for a bad recipe in my eyes.
Yes.
But, politiicians will always run the show. Sadly. Anyway, I have my own blog 😉
Do I even need to start on fundholding? I think not.
More relevant.
Thank you for the follow 🙂
There are several intermingled issues here. Clinicians have enough on their plates making sure they’re up to date with medicine: expecting them to also be expert information technologists as well is asking for trouble. While I take on board the problem that some administrators are too ready to implement change for its own sake, information technology moves on, and to take advantage of the advances in that field requires change.
The single most important issue here, to my mind, and one that too often seems ignored when the rants against cuts start (and believe me, I too can rant against ’em like a good’un), is the simple fact that we’re expecting ever more from a service that as we all know is hard-pressed to service its current workload. We’re living longer. The age profile of the UK is changing, upwards. More ways of dealing with diseases and infirmities are constantly being introduced (and Big Pharma never fails to get its massive payback for each one).
My mum has had both knees and both hips replaced. She has had to wait, from one point of view, a ridiculously long time for these operations: from another point of view, twenty years ago she would have been bedbound by now. When it’s my turn to get into the queues for knees and hips (… and shoulders? elbows? eyes? ears?), I’m going to be ‘competing’ with far more people than she has had to.
The bottom line, as I see it, is: the only way we can possibly get an ‘NHS service’ that repairs all our ills when we need it and doesn’t charge us a bean at the point of care is if we, each and every last one of us, stump up more to fund it, in tax. And that is something that nobody (bar me, it seems) is prepared to even consider.
Rant over 🙂
First of al thank you for your visit and i’ll call at yours later. And its ok to rant here
Managers do change things just for the sake of it, sometimes. Most people would not mind paying a little extra tax for the NHS, BUT, can they be sure it will be used for the NHS, that’s the problem.
I have only been in hospital twice, first for a nose bleed that would not stop, second for a heart attack, and i got the best of treatment both times.
I believe that 25% of the problems are brought on by the people themselves, smoking, over weight, drinking to much, being obese, if these where to stop the hospitals would get less traffic.
I believe it may be helpful for you to investigate your assumptions; I think you may be in error. (Although I, too, as always, may be wrong).
No health care system is perfect–and probably far from it. Public hospital Emergency Rooms in the US can’t turn away people even if they have no insurance. Waiting times like you describe and people literally dying to be cared for happen here, too. Many people don’t seek even the most basic health care because they can’t afford to pay for it, thus getting so sick that ERs are their last resort.
So while your health care system seems to be broken, ours is broken, too–except for the wealthy who have the best health care their money can provide.
Lorna it is true that only the rich can pay for health care in the US , sees below. They will remain broken until people get a grip on it.
It’s all an absolute mess, I couldn’t agree more.
Absolute mess is the right words for it Anna.
@ pendantry ,smoking caused 80,000 related diseases ONLY in England last year and cost £2.7 billion.
obeseity cost £32 million last year for weight loss surgery on 4,619 people ONLY in England. Think of the problems obesity brings on in later life and that all has to be paid for by the NHS.
That’s why i said its the people that bring on the problem for themselves and their children.
“smoking caused 80,000 related diseases ONLY in England last year and cost £2.7 billion” — offset by umpteen billion tax revenue from tobacco sales. I don’t deny that smoking is a stupid habit, but the fact is that revenue from smoking is a net input to the NHS.
I agree with you on that part, i think we could agree to differ 🙂
16 hours just to get admitted. That’s crazy!
Crazy is right Amor, and our hospitals you could wait 5/6 hours just to be seen.
A lesson for those in the states who want to go this way!
It is a lesson, but what about the people who have no money to buy treatment or drugs.
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Things that happen such as the things in the stories you’ve pointed out are all happening in the US under the present system. I have been in countless emergency rooms over the past year. The staff are uneducated about my condition, anorexia nervosa. I assume you know what that is. Well, the staff at these ER’s don’t know. I generally have to wait over 24 hours every single time I’m admitted to a hospital no matter what the reason is. I have slept on cots in emergency room hallways with no place to store my belongings, that is, for a few hours…the rest of the night I had to sit in a chair in a room full of germs. Last summer I spent three or four days (can’t recall) in an emergency room with no shower or toiletries and no access to my belongings because they couldn’t find an inpatient bed for me. The nurse was so uneducated that she tried to stick crackers into my mouth. I was released because they didn’t know what to do with me. My pulse was 45 beats per minute. This didn’t get communicated to the doctor I guess. I was pretty glad to get out of there. After a few days, I was near death, actually, but someone got me in.
And then there is the state hospital system, where people go who are unwanted by society. All sorts of stuff happens in these places…rapes, unexplained deaths, in-house suicides, and of course everyone’s stuff gets stolen…by the staff.
I assume you when you say “mixed” wards you mean men and women? Well, gee, that’s the way it’s done here. I am female and have never shared a room with a man, but sure, there may be guys across the hall or next door or wandering around with an IV pole…what’s the big deal?
Julie
You have got a lot of bad treatment, i thought the US was better than that.
Mixed wards are an 8 or 10 bed ward were men and woman sleep in the same room, but they are nearly done away with.
Thanks for your visit and please call back.